wgolding.lordoftheflies-第36部分

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　evil　and　killed　accordingly。　Are　we　allowed　to　infer　from　your　myth　that　there　will　always　be　a　person　of　that　order　in　a　group；　or　is　this　too　much？
　GOLDING：　It　is；　I　think；　a　bit　unfair　not　so　much　because　it　isn't　germane；　but　simply　because　it　brings　up　too　much。　You　see；　I　think　on　the　one　hand　that　it　is　true　that　there　will　always　be　people　who　will　see　something　particularly　clearly；　and　will　not　be　listened　to；　and　if　they　are　a　particularly　outstanding　example　of　their　sort；　will　probably　be　killed　for　it。　But；　on　the　other　hand；　that　in　itself　brings　up　such　a　vast　kind　of　panorama。　What　so　many　intelligent　people　and　particularly；　if　I　may　say　so；　so　may　literary　people　find；　is　that　Simon　is　inprehensible。　But；　he　is　prehensible　to　the　illiterate　person。　The　illiterate　person　knows　about　saints　and　sanctity；　and　Simon　is　a　saint。3
　KERMODE：　Yes；　well　he's　a　land　of　scapegoat；　I　suppose；
　GOLDING：　No；　I　won't　agree。　You　are　really　flapping　a　kind　of　Golden　Bough　over　me；　or　waving　it　over　my　head；　but　I　don't　agree。　You　see；　a　saint　isn't　just　a　scapegoat；　a　saint　is　somebody　who　in　the　last　analysis　voluntarily　embraces　his　fate；　which　is　a　pretty　sticky　one；　and　he　is　for　the　illiterate　a　proof　of　the　existence　of　God　because　the　illiterate　person　who　is　not　brought　up　on　logic　and　not　brought　up　always　to　hope　for　the　worst　says；　〃Well；　a　person　like　this　cannot　exist　without　a　good　God。〃　Therefore　the　illiterate　person　finds　Simon　extremely　easy　to　understand；　someone　who　voluntarily　embraces　this　beast　goes　。　。　。　and　tries　to　get　rid　of　him　and　goes　to　give　the　good　news　to　the　ordinary　bestial　man　on　the　beach；　and　gets　killed　for　it。
　KERMODE：　Yes；　but　may　I　introduce　the　famous　Lawrence　caveat　here；　〃Never　trust　the　teller；　trust　the　tale〃？
　GOLDING：　Oh；　that's　absolute　nonsense。　But　of　course　the　man　who　tells　the　tale　if　he　has　a　tale　worth　telling　will　know　exactly　what　he　is　about　and　this　business　of　the　artist　as　a　sort　of　starry…eyed　inspired　creature；　dancing　along；　with　his　feet　two　or　three　feet　above　the　surface　of　the　earth；　not　really　knowing　what　sort　of　prints　he's　leaving　behind　him；　is　nothing　like　the　truth。
　
　3pare　the　following　remarks　with　Donald　R。　Spangler's　essay　〃Simon〃　on　pp。　211…215　in　this　volume。…Eds。
　
　KERMODE：　Well；　I　don't　think　it's　necessary　to　state　it　quite　so　extremely。　What　I　had　in　mind　here　was　simply　that　Simon　in　fact　is　ing　down　from　the　top　of　the　hill　where　he's　seen　the　dead　body　of　the　parachutist；　in　order　to　tell　the　other　people　that　all　is　well。　He's　not　embracing　his　faith　which　is　to　be　killed　by　the　other　people；　he　thinks　he's　going　to　put　them　right。
　GOLDING：　Ah；　well；　that's　again　a　question　of　scale；　isn't　ft？　The　point　was　that　out　of　all　the　people　on　that　island　who　would　ascend　the　mountain；　Simon　was　the　one　who　saw　it　was　the　thing　to　do；　and　actually　did　it；　nobody　else　dared。　That　is　embracing　your　fate；　you　see。
　KERMODE：　Ah；　yes；　without　really　any　sense　that　what　will　happen　in　the　end　is　that　he　shall　bee　the　beast；　which　is　what　he　does。
　COLDINC：　No；　he　doesn't　bee　the　beast；　he　bees　the　beast　in　other　people's　opinions。
　KERMODE：　He　bees　the　beast　in　the　text　also：　〃The　beast　was　on　its　knees　in　the　centre；　its　arms　folded　over　its　face。〃　Of　course；　you're　here　reporting　what　the　boys　in　their　orgiastic　fury　thought　Simon　was；　but　I　should　have　said　that　that　way　of　reporting　allows　a　certain　ambiguity　of　interpretation　here；　which　you　cannot；　in　fact；　deny　us。
　GOLDING：　I　thought　of　it　myself　originally；　I　think；　as　a　metaphor…the　kind　of　metaphor　of　existence　if　you　like；　and　the　dead　body　on　the　mountain　I　thought　of　as　being　history；　as　the　past。　There's　a　point　a　couple　of　chapters　before　where　these　children　on　the　island　have　got　themselves　into　a　hell　of　a　mess；　they're…it's　the　things　that　have　crawled　out　of　their　own　bones　and　their　own　veins；　they　don't　know　whether　it's　a　beast　from　sky；　air　or　where　it's　ing　but　there's　something　terrible　about　it　as　one　of　the　conditions　of　existence。
　At　the　moment　when　they're　all　most　anguished　they　say；　〃If　only　grown…ups　could　get　a　sign　to　us；　if　only　they　could　tell　us　what's　what〃…and　what　happens　is　that　a　dead　man　es　out　of　the　sky。　Now　that　is　not　God　being　dead；　as　some　people　have　said；　that　is　history。　He's　dead；　but　he　won't　lie　clown。　All　that　we　can　give　our　children　is　to　pass　on　to　them　this　distressing　business　of　a　United　States　of　Europe；　which　won't　work；　because　we　all　grin　at　each　other　across　borders　and　so　on　and　so　forth。　And　if　you　turn　round　to　your　parents　and　say　〃Please　help　me；〃　they　are　really　part　of　the　old　structure；　the　old　system；　the　old　world；　which　ought　to　be　good　but　at　the　moment　is　making　the　world　and　the　air　more　and　more　radioactive。
　KERMODE：　I　find　it's　extraordinarily　interesting　to　think　of　that　explanation　in　connection　with　the　Ballantyne4　treatment　of　the　same　theme。　I　don't　know　whether　you　would　like　to　say　just　how　far　and　how　ironically　we　ought　to　treat　this　connection。
　COLDING：　Well；　I　think；　fairly　deeply；　but　again；　not　ironically　in　the　bad　sense；　but　in　almost　a　passionate　sense。　You　see；　really；　I'm　getting　at　myself　in　this。　What　I'm　saying　to　myself　is；　〃Don't　be　such　a　fool；　you　remember　when　you　were　a　boy；　a　small　boy；　how　you　lived　on　that　island　with　Ralph　and　Jack　and　Peterkin〃　5　（who　is　Simon；　by　the　way；　Simon　called　Peter；　you　see。　It　was　worked　out　very　carefully　in　every　possible　way；　this　novel）。　I　said　to　myself　finally；　〃Now　you　are　grown　up；　you　are　adult；　it's　taken　you　a　long　time　to　bee　adult；　but　now　you've　got　there　you　can　see　that　people　are　not　like　that；　they　would　not　behave　like　that　if　they　were　God…fearing　English　gentlemen；　and　they　went　to　an　island　like　that。〃　Their　savagery　would　not　be　found　in　natives　on　an　island。　As　like　as　not　they　would　find　savages　who　were　kindly　and　unplicated　and　that　the　devil　would　rise　out　of　the　intellectual　plications　of　the　three　white　men　on　the　island　itself。　It　is　really　a　pretty　big　connection　＇with　Ballantyne＇。
　KERMODE：　In　fact　it's　a　kind　of　black　mass　version　of　Ballantyne；　isn't　it？
　GOLDING：　Well；　I　don't　really　think　I　ought　to　accept　that。　But　I　think　I　see　what　you　mean。　No；　no；　I　disagree　with　ft　entirely；　I　think　it　is　in　fact　a　realistic　view　of　the　Ballantyne　situation。
　
　4。R。　M。　Ballantyne's　The　Coral　Island　was　published　in　1857　in　England。　See　Carl　Niemeyer's　〃The　Coral　Island　Revisited；〃　College　English；　22　（January；　1961）；　241…245。　Reprinted　in　this　volume　on　pp。　217…223。…Eds。
　5。Characters　in　The　Coral　Island。…Eds。
　
　
　
　
　
　The　Novels　of　William　Golding＇
　FRANK　KERMODE
　
　Lord　of　the　Flies　has　〃a　pretty　big　connection〃　with　Ballantyne。2　In　The　Cored　Island　Ralph；　Jack　and　Peterkin　are　cast　away　on　a　desert　island；　where　they　live　active；　civilised；　and　civilising　lives。　Practical　difficulties　are　easily　surmounted；　they　light　fires　with　bowstrings　and　spy…glasses；　hunt　pigs　for　food；　and　kill　them　with　much　ease　and　a　total　absence　of　guilt…indeed　of　bloodshed。　（They　are　all　Britons…a　term　they　use　to　pliment　each　other…all　brave；　obedient　and　honourable。）　There　is　much　useful　information　conveyed　concerning　tropical　islands；　including　field…workers'　reporting　of　the　conduct　of　cannibals：　but　anthropology　is　something　nasty　that　clears　up　on　the　arrival　of　a　missionary；　and　Jack　himself　prevents　an　act　of　cannibalism　by　telling　the　flatnoses　not　to　be　such　blockheads　and　presenting　them　with　six　newly　slaughtered　pigs。　The　parallel　between　the　island　and　the　Earthly　Paradise　causes　a　trace　of　literary　sophistication：　〃Meat　and　drink　on　the　same　tree！　My　dear　boys；　we're　set　up　for　life；　it　must　be　the　ancient　paradise…hurrah！　。　。　。　We　afterwards　found；　however；　that　these　lovely　islands　were　very　unlike　Paradise　in　many　things。〃　But　these　〃things〃　are　non…Christian　natives　and；　later；　pirates；　the　boys　themselves　are
　
　1。This　selection　is　taken　from　a　longer　essay　that　appeared　in　the　International　Literary　Annual；　III　（1961）；　11…29；　and　is　reprinted　by　permission　of　John　Calder　Limited。
　2。　The　relationship　of　R。　M。　Ballantyne's　novel　The　Coral　Island　to　Lord　of　the　Flies　is　taken　up　by　Carl　Niemeyer；　〃The　Coral　Island　Revisited；〃　reprinted　on　pp。　217…223　in　this　volume。　See　also　the　Foreword　to　this　volume。…Eds。
　
　cleanly　（cold　baths　remended）　and　godly…regenerate；　empire…building　boys；　who　know　by　instinct　how　to　turn　paradise　into　a　British　protectorate。
　The　Coral　Island　could　be　used　as　a　document　in　the　history　of　ideas；　it　belongs　inseparably　to　the　period　when　boys　were　sent　out　of　Arnoldian　schools　certified　free　of　Original　Sin。　Golding　takes　Ralph；　Jack　and　Peterkin　（altering　this　name　to　Simon　〃called　Peter〃）3　and　studies　them　against　an　altered　moral　landscape。　He　is　a　schoolmaster；　and　knows　boys　well　enough　to　make　their　collapse　into　savagery　plausible；　to　see　them　as　cannibals；　the　authority　of　the　grown…ups　is　all　there　is　to　prevent　savagery。　If　you　dropped　these　boys　into　an　Earthly　Paradise　〃they　would　not　behave　like　God…fearing　English　gentlemen〃　but　〃as　like　as　not　。　。　。　find　savages　who　were　kindly　and　unplicated。　。　。　。　The　devil　would　rise　out　of　the　intellectual　plications　of　the　three　white　men。〃　Golding　leaves　the　noble　savages　out　of　Lord　of　the　Flies；　but　this　remark　is　worth　quoting　because　it　states　the　intellectual　position　in　its　basic　simplicity。　It　is　the　civilised　who　are　corrupt；　out　of　phase　with　natural　rhythm。　Their　guilt　is　the　price　of　evolutionary　success；　and　our　awareness　of　this　fact　can　be　understood　by　duplicating　Ballantyne's　situation；　borrowing　his　island；　and　letting　his　theme　develop　in　this　new　and　more　substantial　context。　Once　more　every　prospect　pleases；　but　the　vileness　proceeds；　not　from　cannibals；　but　from　the　boys；　though　Man　is　not　so　much　vile　as　〃heroic　and　sick。〃　Unlike　Ballantyne's　boys；　these　are　dirty　and　inefficient；　they　have　some　notion　of　order；　symbolised　by　the　beautiful　conch　which　heralds　formal　meetings；　but　when　uncongenial　effort　is　required　to　maintain　it；　order　disappears。　The　shelters　are　inadequate；　the　signal　fire　goes　out　at　the　very　moment　when　Jack　first　succeeds　in　killing　a　pig。　Intelligence　fades；　irrational　taboos　and　blood　rituals　make　hopeless　the　task　of　the　practical　but　partial　intellect　of　Piggy；　his　glasses；　the　firemakers；　are　smashed　and　stolen；　and　in　the　end　he　himself　is　broken　to　pieces　as　he　holds　the　conch。　When　civilised　conditioning　fades…how　tedious　Piggy's　appeal　to　what　adults　might　do　or　think！…the　children　are　capable　of　neither　savage　nor　civil　gentleness。　Always　a
　
　3。　It　is　interesting　to　ask　why　Golding　changed　the　name。　See　the　Foreword　to　this　volume。…EDS。
　
　little　nearer　to　raw　humanity　than　adults；　they　slip　into　a　condition　of　animality　depraved　by　mind；　into　the　cruelty　of　hunters　with　their　devil…liturgies　and　torture：　they　make　an　unnecessary；　evil　fortress；　they　steal；　they　abandon　all　operations　aimed　at　restoring　them　to　civility。　Evil　is　the　natural　product　of　their　consciousness。　First；　the　smallest　boys　create；　a　beastie；　a　snake…〃as　if　it　wasn't　a　good　island。〃　Then　a　beast　is　created　in　good　earnest；　and　defined　in　a　wonderf